Thune, Daschle clash over dissent

By Bill Harlan, Journal Staff Writer | Monday, September 20, 2004

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Republican challenger John Thune on Sunday accused Democratic Sen. Tom Daschle of encouraging America's enemies and damaging U.S troop morale - a charge that drew an angry response from Daschle.

Thune's remark came in a nationally televised debate between the two candidates.

"His words embolden the enemy," Thune told NBC's "Meet the Press" moderator Tim Russert. "I think they do."

"That is very disappointing," Daschle said, "John's attacks on me, where I come from, would earn him a trip to the woodshed."

"Meet the Press" devoted its entire hour to the Daschle-Thune debate - the first in a campaign Russert called "the most closely watched race in the country."

The two candidates sat next to each other, across the table from Russert at an NBC studio in Washington. Over the course of the hour, Daschle and Thune clashed over:

n The conduct of the war in Iraq.

n Gasoline taxes and drought relief.

n Obstructionism versus dissent.

n Who hugged whom and what it meant.

Much of the debate was not over policy but over who was telling the truth - particularly in campaign rhetoric.

By far the most acrimonious exchange came after Russert questioned Thune about a state Republican Party fund-raising letter alleging that Daschle had provided "comfort to America's enemies."

"I might have chosen a different word," Thune said. But he went on to criticize Daschle in equally strong terms for a remark Daschle made in March 2003, on the eve of the invasion of Iraq. Daschle had called President Bush's diplomatic efforts to avoid the war a "miserable failure."

Thune accused Daschle of "attacking in a way that completely undermines the morale of our troops." Thune added, "That's wrong."

Daschle appeared angry and taken aback. "His efforts to demonize me won't work in South Dakota," Daschle said. "It's not only an attack on me. I take this personally."

Pressed by Russert about the "failed miserably" remark, Daschle said: "I could have found a different time to say it. But you know what? I'm the veteran. There's only one veteran running here."

It was the only time in the debate Daschle appeared to be on the verge of losing his composure, speaking slowly, pausing between sentences.

After the debate, Daschle deputy campaign manager Dan Pfeiffer predicted Thune's accusation would "ring throughout the rest of this campaign."

Pfeiffer, who was in the studio for the debate, agreed Daschle had been taken aback. "I think everyone was taken aback, including Sen. Daschle. There's a reason Tim Russert almost fell out of his chair when he said that."

Thune campaign manager Dick Wadhams, who also was in the studio, said Daschle admitted the remark was a mistake, and he pointed out that Daschle received "withering criticism" last year for the remark. "How else can it be construed?" Wadhams asked. "How else could that be interpreted by Saddam Hussein?"

The war in Iraq

That exchange came well into the second half of the hour-long debate, which NBC ran with only one commercial interruption.

Russert opened the program by asking Daschle whether he agreed with Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, who recently called the war in Iraq "the wrong war, in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Daschle, who voted to authorize the war and to fund it, said, "Well, Tim, I think it's being run the wrong way."

Daschle said he disagreed with Kerry's vote against funding for the war, but he blamed the Bush administration for not building a broader international coalition.

He also faulted the president for sending troops into battle without the right equipment. "I think it's amazing to me that we're using sandbags and plywood in our Humvees, and we're doing bake sales for body armor," Daschle said. "We're not getting the military the equipment that they have to have to run this war."

Thune said Daschle and Kerry had failed to explain what they would do differently to fight terrorism and win in Iraq. "I don't think there's an answer to that question that's been offered up by Senator Kerry or by Senator Daschle or others," he said.

In contrast, Thune said, the Bush administration had a strategy. "Obviously, it's to, you know, create an interim government, move to free elections, ratify a constitution, train an Iraqi army. Those steps are being taken."

Russert quoted from a National Intelligence Estimate from late July that he said "spells out a dark assessment of prospects for Iraq" that range from civil war at worst to, at best, "an Iraq whose stability would remain tenuous in political, economic and security terms."

"This is not going to be easy," Thune said. "These are terrorists. These are people who think nothing of butchering and slaughtering their own people. The United States, I think as the leader of the Free World, has to stay strong. We have to stay resolute. We need to finish the job. If we don't, the terrorists are going to prevail, and I think that spells disaster for the people of the United States and for our national security as we move forward from here."

Daschle, however, repeatedly returned to the criticism that the Bush administration had failed to build a strong coalition, telling Russert, "If South Dakota were a country, we'd be the seventh largest coalition partner today."

Gas tax, drought relief

Russert challenged both candidates on drought relief and federal gasoline taxes.

He asked Thune whether he had stood up to President Bush on drought relief in 2002, when Bush pointedly did not mention it during a speech at Mount Rushmore.

Thune said the president ultimately did support $1 billion in relief. "The only drought relief that South Dakota farmers and ranchers got in the year 2002 was the assistance that I worked with the administration to provide, and it was about a billion dollars."

Russert asked Daschle whether his version of drought relief that year, which called for $6 billion, was simply a call for a "boondoggle" to win votes.

Daschle said the Bush administration's own Department of Agriculture estimated that $6 billion was needed. "That was their assessment, not ours," he said. "That's what we passed in the United States Senate. John Thune didn't pass one cent in the House of Representatives."

Russert asked Thune why he criticized Daschle for voting for a gas tax that returns more money to South Dakota for highway projects than state taxpayers contribute in taxes.

"I am criticizing Tom's record not on energy generally but on taxes as well," Thune said. "And the energy tax is one component part of it. The broader issue here is every time that Tom has an opportunity to vote to lower taxes, he votes against it. Every time he has an opportunity to increase taxes, he votes for it."

Daschle repeatedly objected to that characterization. "We get $2 back for every dollar we commit. That's $187 million. So either John has to decide whether he supports that tax that brings that revenue or supports the repeal of $187 million for highway construction in South Dakota every year."

Who hugged whom

Daschle and Thune also clashed over a Daschle ad that shows a brief clip of Daschle and President Bush hugging on the Senate floor after the president's speech after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Thune called it a "very cynical and manipulative effort on Tom's part to connect himself to a popular president. You know, Tom is literally running out of the arms of Michael Moore into the arms of the president in South Dakota, and I think what it points out is this pattern that he has of saying one thing in South Dakota and another thing in Washington, D.C." (Daschle denies ever hugging Moore. See accompanying story.)

Daschle said his ad showing the hug in the Senate illustrated he was willing to support the president when necessary, but he also said it was proper to disagree.

"You know, John's a follower, and I think there's something to be said for following, but you've got to be more than a follower in the United States Senate," Daschle said. "That moment was a very important moment for our country. I think our country needed to see its political leaders come together, and that's exactly what happened."

Daschle and Thune also clashed over Daschle's blocking federal court appoints, Thune's statement before the invasion of Iraq that Saddam Hussein was close to having nuclear missiles and other issues. (See the box above for how to get a transcript.)

At the end of the debate, Thune and Daschle shook hands.

The next debate will be taped the morning of Oct. 8 at KEVN TV studios in Rapid City and will be broadcast that evening.

Contact Harlan at 394-8424 or bill.harlan@rapidcityjournal.com

Debate online:

"Meet the Press" offers a complete transcript of the debate between Republican challenger John Thune and Democratic Sen. Tom Daschle. Go to: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/